BREAKER TROUBLES

Texman · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

I just became a new member.
I feel I am a fairly good handy man. BUT an electrician I am not. I can do minor things like I am doing now. SO I THOUGHT.
But I have reached an impasse.
My breaker triped at 7:30 am this morning when I was changing my grandaughters diaper.
I went out to turn it back on and it immedeately trips again.
I checked all my GFI plugs and reset them regardless of if they needed it or not. Did the same thing.
I took the breaker to Home Depot and bought a new one and installed it and still kicked out.
This Seimens 15 amp ARC W/ test button on it is responsible for 7 110 outlets in 2 bedrooms.
I checked all of them for burn marks or anything suspicious like wires touching each other and stuff like that. All ok.
So I dicided because they are so cheap that I would replace all of them.
I did them one at a time and changed my wiring one at a time to be sure it was right.
Still kickes out.
I have lived here for a year and have used everyone of these plugs and the house is only 5 years old.
I have never had any problems. I thought this was a pretty simple tasks,but boy was I wrong.
CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH SOME SUGGESTIONS.

handnhammer · Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Well...you've done everything that I would have done and more. I'm assuming there isn't anything plugged in, drawing too much current. So there must be a short somewhere.

The first thing to check is if you have a lamp or other appliance that my be the culprit. That may be the source of the short.
Second, would be to check the individual outlets to see if there are signs of short, but you already have done that.
Third, are any of the outlets controlled by a switch? If so check to make sure the associated switch is ok.
Forth, in an extremely rare circumstance there was a bad outlet, but when you replaced it then you didn't put things back together correctly and it's causing a new short. However, it sounds as if you were very careful.

After all off this, you will have to check the resistance between outlets to get an idea of how the rooms are wired and to see if there are is a short between them. You can use extension chord(s) to help you with this, but make sure the extension chord is good first (no resistance). Make a diagram. Then check resistance between the first outlet and the breaker box...more long extension chords. Eventually you should find the short, and fix it.

What kind of wiring is it?

The reason for this is because NM Romex isn't resistant to rodents, and can be chewed through. Though if the house is only 5 years old, it should be fairly well sealed and rodent resistant.

At any point you think this is out of your league, it is! You should call an electrician to get it figured out. Be very careful messing with electricity, there is no room for error.

I had a similar problem in an older home, and found the short in a junction box in the attic. It was worn out NM shielding on some very old wiring. It didn't take me long to find the problem.

Texman · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

I have one plug that is on a light switch in the same room the bad ones are in. That plug works regardless if the light is on or off and seems ok.
Could you tell me how to check the resistance by using the cords and do I need some sort of meter I can go and buy. (I'm sure that was a stupid question)
I have allot of cords from 10' to a 100' and they are all in great shape.
I am new to the forum and do not know all the rules.
So I will say that I will not hold you responsible for any advise you give me that I chose to do, even if I get welded to my house Laughing

.
Seriously I am knowledgeable enough to not do anything really stupid. I have a great respect for electricity that is why I am seeking help.
Best regards,

Texman

handnhammer · Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Ann Arbor, MI

You will need a multi-meter of some sort. It doesn't have to be too fancy or expensive to check resistance. You'll be able to find one for less than $20.00. The cords just allow you to 'extend' the outlet so the multimeter can reach to check resistance/continuity of the wiring between outlets on the same circuit.

Here's a little video that tells you how to use the basic functions, but the owners manual will have better details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzjMIcER4EU

Texman · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

I have a meter at work,so I will use it. If I can not get power to the plugs how will I be able to read it.
Does the resistance show up anyway on the meter.
I will plug into one wall outlet that is bad and take female part of the cord to the other and put the probe in the hot side of the extension cord and the other in the common side of the other plug to check resistance. (right) or am I way off base.

I also may need to check the junction boxes like you said before, but the wiring is the updated stuff.
I have 20 inches of insulation up their this will be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

Thanks,
Texman

Texman · Joined: 17 Feb 2008 Posts: 6

I want to thank you for your help. Using the extention cords worked I found the plug that was bad and I am back in buisness.

Thank you for your knowledge and help,
Your the bomb,

Best regards,
Texman

handnhammer · Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 54 Location: Ann Arbor, MI

I was just going to post a reply to your last post, but I see you found the problem.

BTW...To draw a little analogy for continuity and resistance, imagine a pipe filled with water. Water goes in one end and comes out the other end then there's continuity, or a connection, if the water going in is the same as going out then there's zero resistance. Now if there's a hole in the pipe, then some will escape, then there's resistance. There is something inhibiting the flow of current. This could be purposeful, or not. A short is not.

With a multimeter you can check the continuity or resistance without the water (electricity) flowing. Continuity means there is a connection from one end to the other, and resistance checks if there are any holes in that connection.

I'm glad you got things figured out. That's what were all here for!

Hammer

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